Jonathan Drake

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Posts by Jonathan Drake

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  57

  New Caleb video uses fearmongering on children

  by Jonathan Drake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  check it out.

  literally the message is if you don't pay attention at the meetings you could die.

  how insane, i feel like this must wake some people up..

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  Jonathan Drake

  Check it out. Literally the message is if you don't pay attention at the meetings you could die. how insane, i feel like this must wake some people up.
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  @myelaine

  none of the scriptures you are posting have anything to do with the Angels knowledge of anything what so ever, I have a heard time seeing how they even apply to the thread. 

  MATTHEW 24:36

  36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
  

  Whereas, I have provided two scriptures that prove your statement wrong. The Angels know nothing more than we do, as into the gospel they are longing to look. Why? Because concerning the day or hour nobody knows, "NOT EVEN THE ANGELS..." They are just like us, waiting to see how it all plays out. That's what the bible says, and what the Quran says. Both say the same.
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  13

  Fun with Gog and/of Magog!! What's really going on here???

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the topic of gog and magog, or gog of magog is pretty hot right now.

  gog....so hot right now...gog.... .

  as has been brought out by many, no one seems to know who gog is.

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  Jonathan Drake

  I'm having trouble remembering where in the bible it's ever gog of Magog and not gog and Magog- I always thought they were two separate geological locations not one of the other.
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  @myelaine

  1 PETER 1:10-12

  10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things into which angels long to look.
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  JD - That is 100% Watchtower nonsense.
  

  
  

  The verbiage is, yes. But the bible is saying what it says pretty clearly there. Adam was the same type of him who was to come- Jesus. Adam died ushering in all sin and death, Jesus died bringing hope and life.. That's what those verses are saying, not me. 

  I just happen to agree with them.
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  myelaine4 minutes ago

  The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus...another issue that the koran has skirted.

  
  

  No... Again you miss the point. As the Quran says itself, it is meant to be taken with the bible. The bible tells Jesus story, the Quran would not retell it because it was already told... I won't say it again..

  "In matters of faith, He has laid down for you people The same commandment that he gave Noah, which we have revealed to you Mohammed and which we enjoined Abraham and Moses and Jesus: 'uphold the faith and do not divide into factions within it'- what do you profit call upon the idolaters to do is hard for them; God chooses whoever he pleases for himself and guides towards himself those who turn to him. [42:13]

  "Believers, argue only in the best way with the People of the Book, except with those of them who act unjustly. Say, 'We Believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you; our God and your God is one and the same; we are devoted to him.'" [29:46]

  The people of the book are Christians, and what was revealed to them is the New Testament. The Quran has spoken for itself yet again.
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  Perfect man Adam - dies, upsets the balance.

  Perfect man Jesus - dies, brings back the balance.

  
  

  equality.

  
  

  a perfect life for a perfect life is the entire point. Jesus is later exalted to a superior position... But only AFTER being an equal death to Adams. Those scriptures in Romans agree, as do the Quranic verses. This was the entire point of the Ransom.... His death being equal to Adams is the very reason why his blood buys back all of mankind, becaus adams blood lost all of mankind...

  again, I'll let the bible speak for itself that, "just as" adam died and ushered in sin (or in the same way, or equal to), so did Jesus also die as an equal death to balance it out and bring life where adam brought death.

  ROMANS 5...

  11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. 
      12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--... 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 
      15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgressionresulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arosefrom many transgressions resulting in justification.
  

  
  
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  @myelaine

  yes, exactly. We are agreeing. If you understand the ransom and how it works then you inderstand Jesus death was equal to Adams death... I'm not sure how we are not agreeing here. Adams death lost perfection and ushered in sin, Jesus death was equal to adam and bought mankind back from imperfection and sin... That's the entire point of the ransom. And that's what BOTH the Quran and bible say.

  5) So, who paid Adam’s RANSOM?
  Jesus (name means Savior) paid the ransom for Adam, because Jesus was sent as the Christ from heaven as a perfect man (John 6:38) and he kept himself 'holy, harmless, and separate from sinners' (Hebrews 7:26).
  Jesus gave himself up as a RANSOM for Adam - died in place of Adam - and thereby became the Savior of Adam and all of his offspring, the human race. This RANSOM is the means by which God could justly release Adam (and all mankind) from the death sentence of Eden.
  

  Above taken from:

  http://christianityoriginal.com/mp/index.php/good/ransom
  

  Only using this as an effort to explain for me, hoping it is articulated better. Romans 5:12-19 is all about explaining how christs death is equal to adam.. It had to be in order for his death to be a propitiatory sacrifice. Is this not clear? 

  "God said, 'Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to me: I will purify you of the disbelievers. To the Day of Resurrection I will make those who followed you superior to those who disbelieved. Then you will all return to Me and I will judge between you regarding your differences." [3:55]

  "In God's eyes Jesus is just like adam..." [3:59]

  elsewhere in this thread I showed where Jesus is said to have died on a cross and been raised to heaven in the Quran, and here it says he was just like adam to God- which is the entire point of his being the ransom...

  
  

  at at this point if you don't see it its just a refusal to do so, we should just agree to disagree. We don't have to see eye to eye on everything.

  i will concede a point of my own making here however, the Quran states Jesus Father as the judge in that verse where the bible says the Father judges no one at all. So that seems a contradiction. Despite this however, Jesus was equal to Adam, and died and was resurrected in both, and people are told to have faith in this and believe in both. 

  
  
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  37

  What could you have been if you were never a JW?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  oh, the possibilities!

  there is a lot of wasted talent.

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  Jonathan Drake

  I spend hours every day wondering about this topic. And i truly don't know. I didn't even have any hobbies until I was 16. Unless you count video games, which is useless. 
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  I'm going to ignore the circular Quran argument we are having, because it does say christs death was equal to Adam. And once again, it does say it is meant to be taken along with the bible, thus all of the "meat" is already established by the bible. but we may as well stop talking about it now. 

  
  

  As as far as the antichrist accusation goes...

  • you want exactly the opposite of what Jesus prayed for.

  I do not want the opposite of it. However, as the bible clearly explains, Christianity was always going to be corrupted by the man of lawlessness mentioned in 2 Thessalonians. There is no entity around today that calls itself christian that isn't neck deep in evil and disgusting things. They are all responsible for harming people to varying degrees. If you think, honestly, that these groups and organizations represent christs interests as they are portrayed in the bible- then I think the one with the skewed ideas is most certainly not me.

  i was not proposing an end to Christianity. I was proposing the world would be a better world without religion. There is no religion just called, "Christian." Only many different denominations there of- all doing horrible things.

  as far as the other posts, I really don't see how it's totalitarian to make it illegal to provide an environment that fosters moleststions of children, robbery, fraud, and undue influence of children against education, as well as anti gay movements, anti-contraceptive teachings that foster poverty and force children to be born in terrible circumstances..... I could  go on. Personally, I don't see a problem with outlawing something that fosters all the above and more. How can anyone really have a problem with that? I know it's not something likely to ever work or even be feasible but is it really so stupid to think it should happen in the face of all this?